Dead Lino Pot (Model 8)

[Mr. Bob]

Hi Guys (and girls...).

Jim Fisher here wondering if those people that so graciously replied to my request a week or so ago about the "dead" lino pot would please try to get back to me - I noticed there were at least 3 replies but apparently there were some website issues which prevented me from getting to read the replies and now I cannot find them on the site.  IF you see the name Mr. Bob on the site, it refers to MYSELF - I had to re-register (for some reason) to get back in even though I've been here a few years.  Hmmm...    Also, it's taking me a bit of triel and error trying to figure out the site in its current form - maybe if I had more time on line it'll get better?  We'll see.

Tkaanks for any info...    Jim

[Dave Hughes]

Hi Jimbo - sorry, Mr Bob! - I'm sorry about the website issues. We had a slight zombie invasion - but I'd rather forget about that episode!

I think the general concensus with the previous replies on your problem was not to jump in and assume it is the element, check with a multimeter first to make sure the problem doesn't lie elsewhere.

I'm sure someone else will elaborate - or say what the procedure is if the element has definitely gone.

[Dan Williams]

The last I recall on the topic was that the main pot heaters actually consist of multiple elements. I observed that US Linotype heaters featured dual elements. Other persons recalled that foreign makes of Linotypes (and possibly Intertype) had even more heater elements in the pot. As others infer, the newer machines allowed convenient removal of elements without having to mess with the pot too much.
So Dave is right-on-the-money regarding your multimeter testing of the pot circuits. I would even go so far as to draw up a sketch of the apparent pot electrical "schematic" That may seem like its over doing it but it is not---many linotypes get rewired in a way that is not consistent with the manufacturers schematics. And there are lots of "official schematics".
Something to think about.
Revisiting the point about multiple pot heater elements. The idea is to get one of the two elements working (the GOOD element) without doing alot of work or alot of rewiring. If you have a good schematic, its possible.

[SwissTypesetter]

I try to mentally recollect my post ...

Our Model 16 has got 3 heating elements. If one of them burns out, naturally all three would stay cold because they're wired in a row.
I've got an instruction here in a (German) book how to find out the dead element. If required, I'll scan it and provide it here.

The heating elements in "my" pot can be changed without having to heat the metal: they're sitting in pockets.
You'd just have to lift the pot lid, open the top of the pockets and lift the element out.
There's a pic of a kind of a screw-tool for pulling-out, if it wouldn't come by hand.

Yes, I think that was the essence of my last post in the old forum.
Please let us know of your progress!

Regards, Andy

[Jeff Zilles [jeffo]]

The Saga of Mr Bob's Model 8

Referring back to the problem as first stated in the previous 'loopy zombie' forum, the details of which one has now to rely on memory,  the pot won't heat and the plunger is stuck solidly in 40 odd pounds of type metal.

The suggestion has been made to test the circuit before doing anything as drastic as tearing the pot off and replacing it - that still holds good but I for one would like to know more.

Mr Bob is placed in one of the smaller and more romantically named states on the East Coast so its a bit hard to hop on your bike and pay him a visit - a pity, for often a look at the problem beast can spark the recollection of a long past successful fixup.

Some answers please  --  I know its going to take more time but may save a lot of useless waffle -  I have already written some step by step stuff for the 'Linotype' pot but am reluctant to post because of its possible irrelevance in the event that Mr Bobs ain't got no Lino pot - no way.

1.   Model 8 - American manufacture ?  If so the Serial Number please ??

2.   Is the machine equipped with a 'Linotype' Pot ?  There's no plate or obvious cast mark on the pot itself,  though a Linophile can identify at a glance.  Probably the best giveaway is the Control Panel -  a foot cubed appendage positioned further to the right of the operator's right shin with a full size Art Deco rheostat placed on the front and perhaps one or two slightly protruding switches at the top corners !!

3.   What is the Power Supply ?  When at a distance, one should never assume.   Services vary between countries and indeed, within countries and of this fact Northern America is an example not an exception.

4.   Further to 3 - Was the machine moved from an area with a different power supply ?  If so - how different ?

5.   Had the machine been running normally and successfully in its present position and environment ?

6.   Had anyone felt the need for circuit / wiring updates, modifications, improvements or simplifications since the machine last ran like a trusty Lino should ?

I think thats about all  --  some answers to these key questions may help shed a little light  - or at least enable us to see the picture clearly from 10,000 miles away.

Incidently the Merganthaler publication 'Linotype Machine Principles' - Sixth printing - 1940  - devotes over fourty pages of the fourhundred and eighty odd in the book to the Electric Pot.

An earlier publication 'Linotype Instruction Book' deals extensively with Gas and Kerosene [Brits read parrafin for kero] with a paragraph stating that people requiring information on electric pots should contact the manufacturer for a brochure.

Ho hum - times change - Good Luck Jim

jeffo

[Dan Williams]

Hoorah, Jeffo.
The best comments, yet.
The discussions  about differences in power source and implications of moving the machine brings to mind my personal experience.
The Model 31 at the Museum of Printing History in Houston originally came from my parents type shop. Years earlier, its original gas pot was switched out with an "ancient" electric pot from another machine. This electric pot had been rebuilt by my father using Star Parts components, exclusively, except for the mouthpiece components and the rheostat you had spoken of. Hence, a very different wiring diagram. The important thing, here, is that this pot worked flawlessly from about 1969 until the machine was taken to the Houston museum in about 1999. Within a few months of its new installation, the pot died.
After a number of diagnostic efforts (similiar to our Dead Lino Pot (Model 8 )) I discerned that the pot heater was spitting lead upon melt-out, onto a hidden unshielded wire connection under the cover. I was able to fix the problem, but it kept recurring until I applied a makeshift shield.
Go figure.... this problem didn't occur in the thirty years it was in the original location .

[Jeff Zilles [jeffo]]

Dan mentions Star crucibles – Can't pontificate on them for I have never seen one,  have no literature on the construction or wiring and to the best of my knowledge I have doubt as to whether any came to Oz – have gone thru the collection of 8's and 14's in the Cave but no joy there - rung around a bit to people whose opinion I trust and have more extensive operator experience than I in many different shops and so far haven't even found anybody who has heard of them.  Star Quadders yes – they abound – but the metal pot , no.

To this end I would like to get hold of any literature on this missing part of my education.  There would be an interesting sales speil with the usual claims of excellence but the real meat would be in the installation and maintenance instructions that came with your kit.

Getting off the subject of fixing Jim's problem a bit but still distantly related.

Still do not want to post a stack of wordy step-by-step fault tracing suggestions and circuit diagrams etc. about the wrong configuration of animal -  so will hold off boring everybody until Mr Bob sees fit to provide a bit more info.

Jeffo

[Dan Williams]

I will try to fish up some of that old documentation, Jeffo. We had two machines with Star crucible thermostats (with high-amperage microswitches) and companion Star crucible heaters and one of the machines had a complete Star control box (replacing the stadard Lino "clapper" and rheo circuit). I know I have at least one left-over set of directions.
Dan

[Gene McCluney]

I thought I had an element failure in my Model 14 electric pot.  It turned out to be the contact on the thermostat relay.   It just wasn't making contact when closed.  Fortunately the contact is adjustable and a slight adjustment allowed contact to be made and the pot returned to normal.

Gene McCluney
Old Van Buren Press