English depth matrices

[aelorenzo76]

Dear forum members,

We have an American Linotype model 5, with american drive depth, so we think that all the matrices that we have are matrices with american depth.

We have contacted a Linotype owner, and his machine was manufactured in England, what kind of matrices uses an English linotype? We guess that he has english depth matrices, is that right?

Is it possible to use Intertype / Linotype matrices with English depth with an american linotype, with american drive depth?

Thank you in advance and kind regards

[aelorenzo76]

Sorry, I don't know why it was posted as a "guest".

Now sorted - Admin

[one stop print]

It could be but the machine would need to be converted. Different mold wheel English Depth molds and the services of a good Mechanic. If it is already running American depth keep it such as American fonts are a lot  more available.

[Dave Smedley]

English depth matrices work only on English moulds. To use American matrices you will need American moulds. As far as I remember the machine will work with either moulds. It's a question of the matrices and the "lock-up" with the mould.

[Mechanic]

You haven't said where you are located. In Australia we used both American and English machines, but as far as I'm aware all machines in Australia use American depth matrices. Try measuring the matrices one against the other. 

[David Smedley]

The difference in the moulds is the depth from the printing face to the shoulder of the slug. The  American depth is less or shallower. I used to be a Linotype operator in London and have worked on Model  4, 48, 78, 794 as well as Intertype machines and briefly an an Elektron. The English slugs probably made better flongs (paper mâché impressions) for plate making machines, and probably longer print runs.

[parallel_imp]

Just because mats are American or English does not always mean they are to maker's standard depth. I have English mats that are American depth, in fact a couple fonts of mats mixed with American-made mats (the English mats have a square where the American mats have a triangle).
If mats are English-standard drive, then you would need an English-standard mold (or mould) which certainly was available for American machines.

[aelorenzo76]

Thank you all for the answer.

We are from Spain. Our linotype has american mold depth.

So, is it possible to cast with one machine, having the proper molds for each type of matrices?

Is it difficult to find the English molds?

Another question, is it possible to cast slugs of higher size that 14 pts just changing to the proper size mold? I mean, 24, 36, pts, etc

I haven't try to replace the molds of my linotype, so I don't know if every linotype can cast all the type bodies.

[Mechanic]

Another question, is it possible to cast slugs of higher size that 14 pts just changing to the proper size mold? I mean, 24, 36, pts, etc

The simple answer is yes, however the mold disk has to be a display mold disk in order to accept display molds. It is possible to have a disk that will accommodate display and body molds, but each type of mold is assigned to its particular location on the disk and they cannot be interchanged.  The pot mouth piece needs to be a display mouth piece which has two rows of holes in order to maintain a good face and a solid slug.  The magazine has to be able to accommodate the larger matrices. Either a 72 channel main magazine or side magazine.

I know nothing about English depth mats and molds.  I do know that trying to combine English depth molds and American molds would be a real headache. You would have to readjust the mold slide advance for justification and more than likely the lock up of the pot to the mold in order not to cause back splashes when the line is cast.

[Dave Hughes]

aelorenzo76 - To get a definitive answer to your question it would be helpful if you could post a photo of your mould disk on here.

[parallel_imp]

Maybe English machines are different, but my American Model 14 does not need a different mold disk to use display molds. They can be used in the two mold pockets with mounting holes for the pot pump safety piece. You need to have the specific type of mold for the size and type of mats to be cast (one-letter and two-letter display mats use different molds, there are different ranges such as 18-24 or 30-36, and there are different types of recessed molds requiring different liners), and there may be additional necessary parts for specific conditions (such as second flipper, first cam shoe, thin front jaw, etc.)

[Mechanic]

Hi Eric,

I was referring to American and English machines. Like your model 14 a large majority of machines shipped from the factory are equipped to handle both display and body molds. However a lot of machines used in newspapers that set classifieds, news body text, intros and sub heads, had no need to have a mold disk that would accept display molds. The mouth piece has a single row of holes.

Thanks for reminding me, you also need a first elevator back jaw with a thin lip. I haven't worked at the trade since 1969, so my memory is a little vague at times.

[Elrodfk]

The matrix on Intertype and Linotype are exactly the same size its only the depth of drive at which the letter is punched into the matrix that is different, this is compensated by the body American (Pica) body is 0.875" + 0.043" Drive = 0.918" English (Pica) body is 0.843" + 0.075" Drive = 0.918" Cicero body is 0.885" + Drive 0.043 = 0.928" Fournier body 0.8897" + 0.043" Drive = 0.9327". So you can use American depth Matrix on European bodies. You can use any old matrix on any old body but it will be under or over type high which isn't a problem as long as you know when doing maker ready or just printing a couple of lines its only when you have a large forme you can run into problems.

[aelorenzo76]

Here I attached a comparison of the depth of an American depth Simoncini matrice and a Linotype English depth matrices.



English depth is higher, does it means that the only difference is that total slug height is going to be higher with English matrices that the slugs acted using American matrices?

I can adjust the press to print properly with higher slugs and also, I can use my Hammond Glider to lower the slugs casted with English matrices. Am I right?

Thank you in advance and kind regards,

Antonio

[Mechanic]

Hi Aelorenzo76,
You haven't said where you are located and whether your type high is Pica or Cicero. If you look at Elrodfk's posting above you should be able to work out what your type height will be depending on the body molds you have on your machine. Mechanical there should not be a problem of using English or American depth matrices. English body molds and American matrices will cast below type high. American body molds and English matrices will cast above type high. you will have real problems if you try to mix American and English body molds on the same machine. The forward travel of the mold disk during justification and during the casting cycle is different for English and American molds. I have never worked with anything but American depth matrices so I so I can't quote from firsthand experience.